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Grumpy --- 11 years ago -

A Doctor's Thoughts on Antibiotics, Expiration Dates
Borrowed this from SurvivalBlog! Who'd a thunk it!!!!! Fish antibiotics!! WOW!!!!


A Doctor's Thoughts on Antibiotics, Expiration Dates, and TEOTWAWKI, by Dr. Bones

As a recently-retired physician who is married to a nurse-midwife, my preparedness group looks to us as the post-TEOTWAWKI hospital and medical staff. Medical progress has been exponential and even just the last decade of scientific breakthroughs can equal a century of improvement in medical treatments, surgical techniques and pharmaceuticals. However, in the years (months?) ahead, the crumbling of the infrastructure and devolution of society in general will very likely throw us back to a medical system that existed in the 19th Century.

Let’s take an example: When the U.S. was a young nation, the average woman could expect to be pregnant 10-12 times during her reproductive lifetime (no reliable means of birth control). One out of four women would not survive the pregnancy, either from issues relating to blood loss from miscarriage or childbirth or Infection (no antibiotics) following same. A myriad of other complications occurred which are treatable today but weren’t back then. I collect old medical books, and even relatively modern obstetric textbooks devoted entire chapters on how to crush a fetus’ skull in order to expedite its removal from a critically ill mother, with instruments that clearly had no other purpose. When childbirth was successful, she could expect perhaps 3-4 of her children to survive to become adults, on average, with many minor children succumbing to simple infections that had no known effective treatment at the time.

This is the grim reality that we, in modern times, will face when the inevitable happens and current medical technology and treatments are unavailable to us.

There is an interesting post-TEOTWAWKI series by History Channel called “After Armageddon” which can be viewed on YouTube. Interestingly enough, it doesn’t appear on History Channel’s list of shows). In it, a family seeks refuge in the aftermath of an apocalyptic event. The father of the family, who is a trained EMT, falls sick and dies from a simply cut on his hand because the antibiotics ran out. It shows that the lack of accumulated stores of antibiotics could mean a shortened life span for even the most prepared individual.

Given the new situation that we will have thrust upon us, it behooves every aware individual to begin to stockpile medications that will be needed in the future, and to become trained one way or another in basic and disaster first aid. Even if your group has a designated “medic”, you have an obligation to be able to handle medical issues in a catastrophic scenario for the sake of your group and your family. Just as the designated “medic” should be trained to handle security issues and should accumulate food and other supplies, so should you accumulate medications and medical supplies. Cross-training is essential for when the medic needs a medic!
Accumulating medications may be simple when it comes to procuring aspirin and other non-prescription drugs but may be problematic for those who cannot write their own prescriptions or don’t have a relationship with a physician who can. I would like to focus on the issue of procurement of antibiotics for the treatment of infection in this essay, as there are already a number of good essays on this site that discusses various aspects of medical care in the post-SHTF era. I heartily recommend that everyone read these in detail.

For all intents and purposes, it is highly unlikely that even basic antibiotics like Penicillin will be actively manufactured in an apocalyptic scenario due to the complexities in said manufacture. Those who say, “it’s just bread mold” are naïve if they think just making prepper bread and letting it sit will produce anything That would cure an infection (penicillin is actually made from liquid that the mold produces under certain man-made conditions. And, no, Ginger Root and other “home antibiotics” probably won’t either.

The reason that I consider this a major issue is that there will be a much larger incidence of infection when people start to fend for themselves, and injure themselves as a result. Simple cuts and scratches from chopping wood can begin to show infection, in the form of redness, heat and swelling, within a relatively short time. Treatment of infections at an early stage improves the chance that they will heal quickly and completely. However, many preppers, being the rugged folk that they are, are most likely to ignore the problem until it gets much worse and spreads to their entire body, causing fever and other systemic problems that could eventually be fatal. Have antibiotics already on hand in their retreat would allow them to deal with the issue until medical help (if available at all) arrives.

Now, what I am about to tell you is contrary to standard medical practice, and is a strategy that is best used in the event of societal collapse that causes the unavailability of conventional medical care for extended periods of time. This line of thought that I am presenting is that “sumpthin” is better than “nuttin” and is not meant to serve as official medical advice for any circumstance but a catastrophic breakdown of our infrastructure and ability of our country to provide medical care for its citizens. If there is modern medical care available to you, seek it out.

Small amounts of medications such as antibiotics could be procured by anyone who is willing to tell their physician that they are going out of the country and would like to avoid “Montezuma’s Revenge”. Ask them for Tamiflu for viral illness and Z-packs, Amoxicillin or Keflex for bacterial diarrhea. Stockpiling of these antibiotics is more of a problem. After searching far and wide, I have come across the best option for the prepper: Aquarium Fish antibiotics.

For evaluation purposes (and because I am an aquarium hobbyist), I decided to purchase online a variety of these products and found them to be identical (unlike some Dog and Cat medications) to those used to treat humans with a doctor’s prescription. I was able to purchase them without any demand for medical licensure, etc. The drugs are listed below and the bottles list the antibiotic as the sole ingredient. They are:

* FISH-MOX (amoxicillin 250mg)
* FISH_MOX FORTE (amoxicillin 500mg)
* FISH-CILLIN (ampicillin 250mg)
* FISH-FLEX Keflex 250mg)
* FISH-FLEX FORTE (Keflex 500mg)
* FISH-ZOLE (metronidazole 250mg)
* FISH-PEN (penicillin 250mg)
* FISH-PEN FORTE (penicillin 500mg)
* FISH-CYCLINE (tetracycline 250mg)

These medications are available usually in plastic bottles of 100 tablets for much less than the same prescription medication at the pharmacy (some come in bottles of 30 tablets). The dosages are similar to that used in humans, and are taken two to four times a day, depending on the drug. The 500mg dosage is probably more effective in larger individuals. Of course, anyone could be allergic to one or another of these antibiotics, but not all of them. (Note that there is a 10% cross-reactivity between "-cillin" drugs and Keflex, meaning that, if you are allergic to Penicillin, you could also be allergic to Keflex). FISH-ZOLE is an antibiotic that also kills some protozoa that cause dysentery.

NOTE: It should be emphasized that FISH-CYCLINE [and other tetracycline antibiotics of various names] can become toxic after its expiration date, unlike most of the other medications listed. So consider acquiring the other ones listed, first.

Which brings me to a question that I am asked quite often and to which my answer is, again, contrary to standard medical recommendations but appropriate in a post-TEOTWAWKI environment where no medical care is otherwise available. The question is: What happens when the medications I stockpiled pass their expiration date?

Since 1979, pharmaceutical companies have been required to place expiration dates on all medications. Officially, this is the last day that the company will certify that their drug is at full potency. Some people take this to mean that the medicine in question is useless or in some way harmful after that date. With few exceptions (tetracycline being one previously mentioned), this is what I delicately term as “a bunch of hooey”!

Studies performed by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) revealed that 90% of medications tested were perfectly fine to use 8-to-15 years after the expiration date. There was apparently no danger in the grand majority of cases. The FDA tested more than 100 medications, both prescription and non-prescription, and continues to study the issue today. The exceptions were mostly in liquid form (antibiotics included, but also insulin, nitroglycerine and some others). What is true is that the potency of an antibiotic could possibly decrease over time, so it is important that your medication cache is in a cool, dry place if at all possible. Refrigeration is an excellent method to maintain the full potency of many drugs.

Many people gauge their preparedness on the number of full ammo boxes in their closet. I’ve got them too. However, preparedness doesn’t mean going out in a blaze of glory; it means going on, in the best health and condition, to re-establish a peaceful and productive society. Every prepper should have antibiotics as part of their medical supplies. They’re available, they’re cheap and they could save your life. 

LiveFreeOrDie (Admin) --- 11 years ago -

Very good post, it should also be noted that both fish and bird biotics are as pure if not more pure than people meds. Birds and fish systems are very delicate and require VERY pure meds.


John Gault --- 11 years ago -

Before the border became a problem we went to Mexico for antibiotics. Most are quite inexpensive and over the counter. For smaller cuts etc use honey. 

rightwingmom (Mod) --- 11 years ago -

Excellent information! Thanks for posting. FYI ~ Just checked Amazon for (fish brand) of Cipro and Zithro...temporarily unavailable. Dang...there are a lot of fish tanks out there. LOL ;)

A preventative measure I've used for over 20 years is plain zinc tablets. My FIL is a retired pharmacist. His instructions are, when you FIRST feel a catch in your throat or your mucus becomes discolored, suck on a 30 mg. or 50 mg. zinc tablet. (You can buy them in the vitamin section at Kroger, Randall's, Walmart, etc.) They're disgusting but it only takes a few minutes to dissolve. The zinc kills the infection, as long as it's in its early stages. Children can use the generic zinc lozenges that are only 12.5 mg. each. I've also seen zinc suckers for toddlers at Walmart, but I'm not sure about their mg. strength.

I would caution against overdosing. Children should stay under 50 mg. and adults should not exceed 100 mg. within a 24 hour period.

If I catch my sore throat early enough, it usually only takes 2 (sometimes 3) tablets to knock it out. In addition to protecting your "fish" why not have a couple of bottles of zinc in your medical stockpile. The bitter taste sure beats coming down with Strep Throat! 

rightwingmom (Mod) --- 11 years ago -

Amazon has it and it's free shipping.
Fish Mox 250 mg. (aka Amoxicillin)

Also, here's a link to MedicineNet.com. They have good advice on what antibiotics treat and dosing.

5 Rah --- 11 years ago -

My supply of "fish" med's came in yesterday ~ I am feeling a little more secure knowing my "fish" will have a better chance of surviving an infection TEOTWAWKI; something that has already become a reality in my life :| 

rightwingmom (Mod) --- 11 years ago -

Fish Flox (Cipro) was available at Amazon...finally! Grabbed 100 ct of 500 mg. and 30 ct. of 250 mg.

Printed treatment and dosing instructions off MedicineNet.com

I can't imagine a world without access to simple antibiotics! 

nooneishome --- 11 years ago -

I just got some as well. Very very helpful.

This has been one of my biggest concerns for prepping. My ..fish... get sick a lot. 

LiveFreeOrDie (Admin) --- 11 years ago -

This has been one of my biggest concerns for prepping. My ..fish... get sick a lot.

Exactly, ours too!! Very stressful. 

nooneishome --- 11 years ago -

I need to get a bigger fish tank for them though. One that I can put lots of plants in so they nibble on healthy food if the SHTF.

I don't think my little fish would like all the beans I have.

I have Pinto, white beans, black beans, more pinto beans, red beans, some other kinds of beans I can't remember.

Really, there just doesn't seem to be anything else that has as much nutrients and stores for as long... as beans. But MUST BUY EXTRA BEANO! 

Committed --- 11 years ago -

ampicillin is on my 'to get' list...from feed store--I'm thinking TSC..hopefully. 

5 Rah --- 11 years ago -

Aragon ~ a bit off topic "antibiotics" but if you don't have a pressure cooker for all those beans, you might consider getting one. Very easy to use, safe, and if you are in a position of needing to save your fuel, the cooking time with a pressure cooker is a lot less. 

Basher FiveTwo --- 11 years ago -

Ordering now! Thank you. 

LiveFreeOrDie (Admin) --- 10 years ago -


Loki --- 10 years ago -

Got my fish biotics ready to go. 

rightwingmom (Mod) --- 10 years ago -

Don't forget your chickens!!!

Bird Biotic is Doxycycline.

Doxycycline is also of relevance to bioterrorism since the CDC (US Centers for Disease Control & Prevention) recommends it as "the drug of choice" for anyone who may have been exposed to anthrax.

I'd hate for you to loose your chicks to anthrax!

nanachickies --- 10 years ago -

Love this site already - I've only been on it for 1 hour. 

rightwingmom (Mod) --- 10 years ago -

Dr. Bones

The Patriot Nurse (Get out your pencil & notepad!)


rightwingmom (Mod) --- 10 years ago -

Updated sources for purchasing:

Thomas Labs


Aquatic Pharmacy 

rightwingmom (Mod) --- 9 years ago -

Bumped b/c this is our hottest thread!

Don't face TEOTWAWKI w/out protecting your fish and birds! 

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